EDIT: I just got an email from the guy I have mentioned in this post, poor guy has been thinking too much over this. Anyway, I had appended his email at the end of this post.

So SAWJ asked a question his blog and I have been reading the discussion silently, not adding my own interpretation as I was afraid that I might say something blasphemous. Here’s the question again:

Let’s say, there’s an engineer who designs a satellite. The life of the satellite is long enough and he sends it into space with 100 years of fuel. There’s no chance that the satellite will get destroyed and not be able to complete it’s 100 years. But after 25 years, the engineer dies!

Now the question is: Will the satellite stop working with the engineer’s death and not complete it’s 100 years?

If you think yes, you don’t possess the IQ to read on. Please stop reading right here!


If you thought no, here’s the real question:

Allah designed this Universe to perfection, there’s no chance of it getting destroyed by external force. He wrote all that is to happen in the Loh (book) with the Qalam (pen) [I hope you do know about the Loh-o-Qalam]. But after 25 years of creating this Universe, Allah died. This Universe will work perfectly as designed till the day it’s supposed to die. Is there any proof that Allah is still alive?

What I willbe writing here is not my interpretation but conclusion to a discussion that I had over this with someone I had emailed this question to. Lemme clarify, he’s not an aalim, just a normal guy who loves to study islamic literature:

First of all, it is important to understand, the question that was posed was not in the category of ‘shirk’ but in fact under ‘kufr’ but it would not be considered kufr cuz the human mind is free to think but actually believing in something of the sort would be kufr. Further, SAWJ also has an answer to this question according to the Shariah which he is not revealing.

Now coming to the part of ‘understanding by logic’. Ofcourse, for that we need to know what logic actually is. According to the limited knowledge that we have, logic is a mere illusion. Newton’s absoluteness theory/religious views (which gave way to so many laws in physics) were deemed incorrect by Einstein’s theory of relativity. We also know through the theory of incompletion, nothing can be deemed complete (and perfect) and thus all the laws and theories that we have in this world are merely ‘assumptions’ important for us to make our lives simpler. (It can also be used to explain why Newton’s laws were negated by Einstein and why Einstein’s theories are also in danger of negation in the future…they are incomplete like everything else). Now, if we take the islamic perspective, even the likes of Hazrat Imam Al-Ghazali, considered to be one of the best islamic philosophers and also the pioneer of occasionalism was unable to prove various happenings merely through logic.

So, what do we do now? This is where we need to be a little dogmatic and simply believe things as they are stated in the Qur’an by Allah (SWT). It is stated clearly in Ayat-al-Kursi that “Allah! None has the right to be worshipped but He, the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists.” [2:255]

SAWJ, I am waiting for your answer now 🙂

EDIT: Ok, SAWJ has just posted the answer here.

EDIT: Here’s the email I was talking about

A man asked to Hazrat Ali (RA) that you believe in Allah and his oneness and you accept Islam and follow the commands by preventing yourself many luxuries of life. What is that? I don,t believe in God and I do what I please to. Hazrat Ali (RA) replied that: Ok, for the moment let us assume that your believes are true. In this case, whatever I have been doing by accepting Islam would not have any harm because there will not be any day of judgement and I will not be answerable to anybody. The only suffering I will have is that I remained away from the luxuries of life and I will be dead without enjoying. Since human life is finite, thus I (or any body following Islam) will be loosing a finite luxury-time (according to your belief). On the other hand, if what you say are false and my believes are true, then according to Islam, by not accepting Islam, you will be punished in Hell and will remain there for un-ending time. What is the best way now? Accepting Islam or not accepting? Enjoying a finite life time or facing a great pain for an infinite time? The choice is yours.
May Allah bless Hazrat Ali (RA) and raise his standing in Jannah upon Prophet Muhammad (SW) and give us the love of him and all the Sahaba Kiram (RA). (Amen)

39 thoughts on “Kufr?

  1. I wouldn’t say logic is an illusion.

    Our brains are limited and we cannot possibly comprehend the creations of Allah, let alone Allah, but Allah has also asked us to investigate everything around us. He has instilled curiosity in Man.

    The Holy Prophet (S.A.W.W.) ordered every Muslim to go to Seen (not Cheen [China]) for learning knowledge if he/she had to.

    The point is to investigate and dig deeper and deeper into the existence of, and relations between every object because all of it leads to belief in the greatness of Allah. And without logic, it’s not possible.

    Allah has only named around 20-30 prophets in the Quraan but He has mentioned Intelligence and Common Sense (Aqal), as the greatest Guide, and over 300 times.

  2. In my opinion [Okay – *my opinion*], delving into the realm of ‘what ifs’ when it comes to religion is walking a thin line which inevitably also leads to doubt in ones faith. There are somethings in Islam which may seem ‘unlogical’ in our human understanding, but are there for a reason that only Allah [Subhanna wa ta’ala] knows.

    Complete Imaan, without doubt, is one of the foundations of faith.

    [The above were just my thoughts, may or may not be relevant to the discussion at hand]

  3. @ SAWJ
    precisely the comment that i left at your blog…critical thinking is allowed, in fact encouraged, in islam

    @ purple
    thats wat the problem is that we start thinking of certain things as ‘illogical’, but it is upto us how we take it. we can take it positively as SAWJ has pointed out

  4. its important that we question our faith, true…cuz if we do not question our faith, we cant become better muslims.
    i wont say im a good muslim but whatever i know now is just out of curosity. I would say SAWJ is Alhamdulillah very lucky that he is already curious.

  5. SAWJ: Somethings, yes. But other things, like qadr, or where did Allah subhanna wa ta’ala originate from, more of the ‘ghaib’ ‘unseen’ things which aren’t beneficial to us should be left untouched.

  6. @ SAWJ

    @ purple
    even the qur’an itself has 3 categories of ayahs: the ones with direct instructions, the ones which tell incidents/stories and the ones to which the meaning can never be known to us and hence, we have to be a lil dogmatic at times

  7. @PurpleDrifter: Well I can answer your question about Allah’s origin. But I think I’ll do that on my blog! 😛

    Another intelligent post for my blog. 😀

    @KW: You can know the meanings of those unknown Ayats too, just dig deeper and deeper and you’ll understand. 🙂

    The more you learn, the more dawns on you!

  8. Also, if you want to understand Allah better I would recommend the Nahj-ul-Balaghah [collection of Hazrat Ali’s sermons]. Absolutely brilliant and concept-correcting! 🙂

  9. imalready reading Hazrat Imam Al-Ghazali’s Kimiya-e-Sa’sdat these days and listening to CDs of Dr Farhat Hashmi’s tafseer-e-Qur’an. I need to get hold of Hazrat Ibn Abbas’s tafseer too. Ill just add the book that you have recommended to the list of books that I need to get 🙂

    As for the post on Allah’s (SWT) origin, would definitely be looking forward to it

  10. whoever wishes to get into someone’s shargardi should do so with my mother. she has all sorts of books in her library on all fiqh. she already has books like kimiya-e-saadat and Nahj-ul-Balaghah and god knows what not.

    faith and logic need to be differentiated. I agree with purple that there are certain aspects that should not be touched upon too much [such as the matter of souls]. Ofcourse our logical mind does not accept this easily but people with faith would just nod and move on.

    I am all for critical thinking because the discussion that follows makes up for some very interesting read. 🙂

  11. *blinks at his comment above*

    Are you using a plugin that edits (i.e., shortens and summarizes) the comments’ text? Because honestly speaking, I don’t remember writing my previous comments in these words!

  12. @Saadat: Kimiya-e-Saadat as in Syed “saadat”?

    @KW: No book or lecturer can compare to Hazrat Ali and his sermons!

    As for Ibne Abbas’s Tafseer, he learned the knowledge of Quraan from Hazrat Ali (A.S.) himself.

    A man came to him and asked, “What is in the Quraan?”

    Abdullah Ibne Abbas replied, “By Allah, if the reign of my camel gets lost in a jungle and I ask the Quraan, it will tell me where that reign is!”

    He was asked what the difference between his and Hazrat Ali’s (A.S.) knowledge was.

    He replied, “My knowledge is like a raindrop, Ali’s knowledge is like an ocean!”

    As for how he got his wisdom, he describes it in the Nahjul Balaghah. There really can be no better source of learning than from the one who was raised by the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) himself.

  13. Well her is a cynic’s point of view.

    Taking it from a pure logical point of view, we as humans know what we se in this universe, a century ago contracting time the idea of a space-time continuum would be considered blasphemous by any standards, religious or scientific. (There is an underlying discussion here that I would like to address later.) Belief and Faith allows us to comprehend the unexplainable and believe in the unobservable. (which Heisenberg has already proved that everything in this universe is unobservable, atleast without changing its state.) If there was n’t any Faith, Tamerlane would n’t have conquered half the world, Edison would n’t have invented the bulb, Wright brothers would n’t have made the Flyer 1. What faith gives us is motivation to strive to better ourselves as humans (through knowledge) Now knowledge is a tricky thing you see, it can prove everything and it can unprove averything but it does n’t provide us with zeal and determination.

    And Islam is the most logical of all religions!!!

  14. @ Saadat
    ummmm…..nope, im not using any plugin of the sort at all. No idea at all :S

    @ SAWJ
    i dont think there’s any harm in referring to other books as well. have you read the addition that I made to this post?

    @ Safiullah
    thats not exactly my point of view, its someone else’s. I usually dont like to make my own interpretations too much (I used to do that) but I dont think I have enough knowledge. This isjust an explanation which I found quite convincing. The guy I have talked about in this post is actually a mathematician and his point of view is usually far more logical than a lot of people

  15. Nope there isn’t but if you can get the best easily, you don’t have to rely on others. And specially when the other books rely on the best too. 😉

    Yes I read the addition. I’ve known this one for a long time. And it’s pretty funny! 😀

  16. * comment deleted *

    Naureen this is not the place to discuss shiaism or sunnism. Im sure there are plenty of places where you can do that.

    Further, lemme clarify, I am a sunni and very satisfied being that. SAWJ is a shia and definitely has a different aqeedah than me which I totally understand. I do not have a mentor personally and that is why I am reading books by the likes of Hazrat Imam-Al-Ghazali (RA) who was pretty much the pioneer of Shafai fiqh.

  17. Sister, there was no need to insult like that. You could have contacted me personally rather than mentioning here. It could be much better for me. I was clear what I was talking about. I was not offending shiaism or any other ism here. I am sorry you misunderstood that. Anyway I forgive you.

    I would recommend you to read Masnavi by Molana Room(RA) as well.

    Thanks for inceasing my knowledge….I thought Imam Shafai(RA) was the pioneer of fiqh.

  18. read again…i said ‘pretty much’ rather than being the pioneer. he was the pioneer of Occasionalism.

    Further, I am not asking for any forgiveness from you. Just try to refrain from pointing fingers at someone just cuz he/she is a shia. I only like to discuss things which are common among all sects of Islam. I believe in looking at the common things rather than the differences. The post here looks at a belief which is common rather than something which splits shias and sunnis.

  19. Okay okay, quit fighting girls! 😛

    I only mentioned Allama Zameer Akhtar because he is an AUTHORITY on history and religion. You can learn from him knowledge about any sect. And he’s my mentor. 😀

    And if we’re discussing unity here, let me mention that all pioneers of Fiqh i.e. Imam Abu Hanifah, Imam Shafai, Imam Malik, Imam Ahmed Ibne Hanbal are all students of one personality: Imam Ja’far-e-Sadiq (A.S.). For more info, read the book “Pensive Brain of Islam/Superman In Islam: Ja’far-e-Sadiq”.

    No no, it’s not a Shia book! 😛

    It was written by 25 scholars (only two are Muslims) from all over the world who united to find out about that personality in the world who had spoken and taught on all topics. They researched and decided to write on Ja’far-e-Sadiq (A.S.)

    Imam Abu Hanifah came to study Chemistry at the university of Imam Sadiq (A.S.). Jabir Ibne Hayyan came to study Fiqh. But Imam Abu Hanifah left as a Faqeeh while Jabir went on to become the Father of Chemistry. 😀

  20. we arent fighting, SAWJ. i just dont like discussing the shia-sunni thing and that is why i deleted the comment as it was going to change the topic completely and turn into a debate of something completely ridiculous. Khair, enuff on this, better not discuss it further.
    I anyway do not believe in fiqhs too much as I mentioned earlier. I only read certain books cuz the Qur’an itself is a complicated book, not easily comprehensible (atleast not for people like me). Thus, to be able to understand certain portions of the Qur’an, it is important to read other literature.

  21. @SAWJ:
    Quote: “There really can be no better source of learning than from the one who was raised by the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) himself.”

    I agree!

    You should have been a bit soft while answering N’s comment.. See, she felt insulted.

  22. Oh, had forgotten I left sth (a comment, of kors) here…

    And, Karachiwali, plz. I spell my name as A.A.M.I.R., and I would be pleased to see others spell it like this ONLY.
    Hope you’ll consider the point 🙂

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